Tuesday, November 22, 2011

OH-OH...I'M ON THE WRONG SIDE ON THIS ONE


I support "first responders," police, fire persons, EMS, etc.

Police, in general, are there to help keep the peace, with some stipulations as to the extent they can go to do so, as determined by federal and state constitutions, laws and ordinances.

But this is too far to go.

The police involved in this incident, and anybody who was involved in ordering them to do this deed, should be summarily fired.

Period.

While I totally disagree with most of what OWS stands (or in this case, sits) for, I am totally enraged at how the police handled this incident.

Bad on them.

Very bad.

27 comments:

Xavier Onassis said...

Good call Joe.

There may be hope for you yet.

Anonymous said...

I can see how this certainly does look excessive, but the fact is the kids were breaking the law and did have plenty of time to leave. It's not like the police were running around pepper spraying random people on the street - that would be insane, obviously. It also appears as though they knew they were about to be pepper sprayed, and as soon as the first person was sprayed, it should have been abundantly clear that they would all be pepper sprayed - so there were numerous chances for them to simply get up and move, tha't all.

Ducky's here said...

Yes Joe, Officer Dunkin' Donuts did himself proud with that one.

You have to weed out the psychos every so often.

Joe said...

Anon: I agree that they could have left. However, they did not leave, they DID know it was coming and deliberately stayed put.

Nevertheless, it was the wrong thing for the police to do, whether they left or not.

They may have been breaking the law (I don't really know), but they were doing no immediate harm and nothing to justify pepper spray (that I know of).

It would have been better to just cuff them all and take them to jail, if their actions were so bad.

That's my humble, but correct, opinion.

Lisa said...

Joe isn't it cheaper to just spray them then to have process all that paperwork? The Obama Wall Street Protesters already are costing cities thousands of dollars to "protect" them and clean up after them,not to mention the lost revenues they cost surrounding businesses. And we know how they love their revenues.
And yes they were warned they would be pepper sprayed.

Z said...

It looks horrid, doesn't it.
I just heard this morning that there's video of the cops begging the protesters to disperse as they'd been told many times....finally, when they didn't want to hit them, they told them (and can be heard saying) "cover your eyes, close your eyes"...

puts a slightly different slant on it.
Although the guy DOES seem like he's WAY too close and enjoying it a bit!?
Still, that input this morning is interesting ...

Also, they're back, there are more tents where they were told to leave...they've returned.

Lone Ranger said...

I fault the police for playing into the protesters' hands. Donny Deutsch, an MSNBC commentator, said he was hoping for "a Kent State Moment" to give these morons some credibility. They actually WANT a martyr, so that reasonable people will take their stupid demonstrations seriously. That is why the media covers up the hundreds of crimes committed by these societal parasites, while trumpeting every bloody nose inflicted by authorities. IT'S PEPPER SPRAY! Pepper spray was invented for the express purpose of avoiding "a Kent State moment." Pepper spray is even less dangerous than tear gas. But the lefties scream just as loudly, making them look even more like hysterical simps.

Remember talking point #11, Joe. To express righteous indignation, one must first be righteous. And that's a label that doesn't stick to liberals.

Chateau Robert said...

People, the difference between this country and a lot of others is our ability to address our grievances with the state, or with the local authorities . In this case, if the protesters feel their rights to assemble were violated when they were sprayed, they can sue for a civil rights violation. The decision is not to be made on the scene between the protesters and a line officer. He did nothing wrong. If an officer asks you to leave, you leave.
According to all the news reports, the police told them to leave and if they didn't, they'd get sprayed. they didn't leave so they got sprayed
The bottom line is, if you go looking for trouble in all the wrong places, you just might find it.
It was just a matter of time before these protesters caused a problem that would be blamed on the police. Whenever things get out of control, the police seem to be blamed. We have to get our priorities straight, the police aren’t the trouble makers. And of course the lefties are going to spin it.

And btw,Ducky's here, the "Officer Dunkin' Donuts crack wasn't at all funny. In fact I found it to be not only stupid but stupid and childish.

Z said...

Lone Ranger, you can't be serious.
Donny Deutsch said THAT and the media's not picking up on it? (yes, though my blog's practically dedicated to media bias, I STILL can't believe some things I hear)...
SO, he's hoping for a death. Unreal.

Chateau Roberts...you don't know Ducky, right?

Ducky's here said...

Chateau, take a look at the girth on that clown.

Lisa said...

Joe did you catch this?

http://outraged-commomsense.blogspot.com/2011/11/thomas-sowells-position-on-occupy-wall.html

Xavier Onassis said...

Chateau Robert - "The decision is not to be made on the scene between the protesters and a line officer. He did nothing wrong. If an officer asks you to leave, you leave."

Absolute nonsense. A "line officer" does not have Absolute Power. They can't give any order they want and expect compliance.

When I was in my teens I had a small town cop walk up to me, stick his hands in my pockets and start pulling things out.

He had no legal authority to do that. I was 14 then and didn't know any better. I cooperated.

Any cop tries that today and he'll be swallowing his teeth before he knows what happened.

I'm a Citizen of the United States of America and I will not be bullied by some thug with a badge and a gun.

Despite the best efforts of the Republicans over the last few decades, this isn't a Police State yet.

I will exercise all of my rights and I will not have them interfered with by some swaggering, pot-bellied fool with a Napoleon Complex.

Ducky's here said...

So Chateau can you explain why force had to be used?

The students would not have resisted if you simply zip stripped their hands and arrested them. That's what more professional officers ended up doing.

But what we have is a cop who gets a certain joy out of spraying non violent students. Who knows what kind of pathologies he's working out.

And what do you have now? The demonstrators are camping n the campus of U. Santa Cruz. So why not tell me exactly what Officer Dunkin' Donuts accomplished.

Joe said...

Look, all. I do NOT defend the rights of these people to do their protesting in the way they are doing it.

The First Amendment protects the right of peaceful protest to address greviences (specifically against the government, not against private citizens).

That said, these people are neither peaceful nor are they addressing any specific greviences.

They are all over the map.

The only thing I object to is the deliberate, systematic and totally unnecessary pain inflicted on human beings when there are a myriad of other ways to handle the issue.

In my opinion, the cop was wrong and there is no justification for his action.

I have no problem with the use of force when it is appropriate.

This was not even force. It was the deliberate infliction of pain for no reason and that produced no result.

That's not good law enforcement, and if they're teaching that in police acadamies, they need to stop it.

Arrest these people, stick them in a paddy wagon and take them off to jail.

If they resist with fighting, then beat the stuffing out of them. But don't inflict unmerited or capricious pain on people for little or no reason.

In a free society, police must not have absolute power.

If there is a specific ordinance being violated, then, by all means, arrest them.

And while it might look like I am agreeing with XO, Ducky and the other libs, I am not.

I'm only agreeing with myself.

Oh, and I DO agree with LR about the police playing into the protesters' hands.

All the more reason to have not had this incident.

sue hanes said...

Why Joe - Come on over to the dark side and ride in the funvee for a change. : )

Xavier Onassis said...

Sue - Kudos on the "Iron Man" nod.

Jo Joe - You are right. The students were sitting quietly. They posed no threat to the officer. Cuffing, arresting and dragging into custody would have been a much more reasonable response.

Ducky's here said...

Sorry Joe, you agree with us.

Joe said...

XO and Ducky: No, you agree with me.

Leticia said...

They were told to leave, they refused, and were warned and still did not obey. I don't know what other alternative he had, except let the k9 units release their dogs on them?

I have zero sympathy for these ingrates who have done nothing but cause loss of money, businesses to close and have destroyed private property.

Next time, they should move.

Ducky's here said...

Okay, if it maks you feel better.

Xavier Onassis said...

Leticia - I've heard that there are some Democracies where police actually arrest people they believe have broken a law, take them before a Prosecutor where charges are filed, and then present those charges before a Judge and/or Jury of their peers where a determination of guilt or innocent is made.

I know, sounds CRAZY, right?

Joe said...

Leticia: As I may or may not have made clear, I have absolutely no sympathy for OWSers, just check out my previous posts.

Neither do I have sympathy for handling a situation inappropriately, which I think the police did.

What they accomplished was a lot of negative feelings in the general public toward police, an opportunity for noaccounts to castigate them and the chance for liberals to deflect reaction from the disgust of OWS to disgust for the police.

It was lose-lose.

They should have been arrested and hauled away.

Pepper spray might well be less intense than tear gas, but the emotional effect on the general public and the seemingly dispassionate attitude of the police was not good for the anti-OWS cause.

Scotty said...

Joe, I agree with you. The right thing to do when they didn't comply was to hoist them up and put 'em in the wagon....

Ducky's here said...

Leticia, you have a future with the Syrian interior ministry.

Ducky's here said...

More on Officer Dunkin' Donuts.

"But an alleged anti-gay slur by Pike also figured in a discrimination lawsuit a former police officer filed against the department, which ended in a $240,000 settlement in 2008."

Wow, knock me down.

sue hanes said...

XO - Iron Man is one of my very favorite movies.


and Iron Man 2 isn't too shabby either.


especially Mickey O'Rourke

Ducky's here said...

He's a celebrity


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