Monday, November 7, 2011
MY CONTINUING FINAL WORDS ON OWS (In Pictures)
"...the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." (First Amendment)
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44 comments:
Joe - In the pictures in that post what is emblazoned on my mind is the two smiling white men dressed in suits casually strolling down the street with their hands in their pockets and seg's on their faces.
Yeah, I'm sure the naked broad really changed a lot of people's minds.
Filthy pigs, the whole mob. I am fairly certain how history will view this little hissy fit from those on the left, all of whom life has passed by (and for good reason, they are useless).
Dirty, stinking low lifes, the whole lot of 'em.
sue hanes: Yeah. That was the most important part and the point of all the pictures.
Rita: Turned a few heads, yes. Changed minds? Not so much.
Fredd: My view of them, their fellow participants and their supporters.
The naked woman is a PETA protestor and has nothing to do with OWS.
In fact, I think you just troll the internet looking for the most outrageous and inflammatory pictures you can find and toss them together in an Ignorance Salad, drizzle a little Hatred Dressing over them and claim they are whatever you say they are.
Nice try.
Xavier, you want to know what the movement is actually all about, try reading the General Assembly minute from OWS-NYC. You guys want to claim they are not against capitalism, but's it's all over their own minutes, you want to claim they are well-educated, well-intentioned people, read the minutes, watch their livestream.
The minutes read like it's a neighborhood 3rd grader movement whose "minute takers" cannot even spell words my 9-year-old grandson can spell.
Read what they put online about themselves from their very own minutes before you claim the conservative sites are just cherry-picking what OWS is all about.
And just WHY did they have to create a women's safe area? Oh, that's right, the women are getting attacked by undercover cops posing as OWS scum.
Well, Rita, I did as you suggested and read the minutes from the 11/2 General Assembly of OWS-NYC.
What did you think was "anti-capitalist"? Perhaps you can provide a quote?
"The minutes read like it's a neighborhood 3rd grader movement whose "minute takers" cannot even spell words my 9-year-old grandson can spell."
Actually, I copied the entire text of the GA Minutes and ran it through MS Office spell checker. It found no misspelled words of grammer inconsistencies.
If YOU want to know what OWS is about I suggest you read their Constitution at www.occupytheconstitution.org rather than listening to O'Reilly, Hannity and Limbaugh.
"And just WHY did they have to create a women's safe area?"
Hey, that's just New York for you. We don't have those problems at Occupy Kansas City. But we do have BBQ so that makes us WAY better than that NYC scum.
Problem is Rita that OWS and its manifestations are about a lot of things.
Now how do we take it to the next level? The ballot box? A "choice" between a Democratic Leadership Council stooge and a Republican slate whose platform is just this side of mental illness?
Or maybe a grassroots movement and something like the human offal pile Andrew Breitbart issues an edited video and the "liberals" in the Senate jump all over themselves to smash the organization?
Lovely Rita, meter maid, download the Democracy Now! podcast. Amy Goodman has been doing a good job of presenting the variety of views at the various sites.
This weeks Nation also has excellent coverage.
Give it a try, you won't get warts or anything.
And there's Fredd deciding who's useless.
Hey XO, welcome back. Joe had a couple standing eights in the earlier threads. He's staggering.
I just have one thing two things say, "eeewwww..." and "get a job!"
Well, at least those older gentlemen got a free show. Disgusting behavior.
10/30/11
Request for money for t-shirt screen printing.
"43.1.2.3.1. My name is Hampton. I’m expressing concerns about this proposal about the t-shirts, regarding this capitalist business of making t-shirts and selling them. We are against Wall Street, we are against capitalism. We need to allocate our donations for our struggles against capitalism. That is why we are here. I strongly vote against this proposal. Alternatively, if we are to spend our money, I would like to save it for our political prisoners for continuing our struggles.
....
43.1.2.3.2. My concern is that people in GA don’t understand the amazing promo opportunity this is, because if people are wearing their shirts to the colleges and in the mall and on the street it will rally more support for our cause. So my suggestion is instead of nit-picking I’d like you to explain why this is an amazing promo opportunity for our cause.
Response: I guess I didn’t presume to need to tell this crowd why it’s important to have your message out in the world. A lot of people have taken back t-shirts to their states and their countries and their churches and their schools, etc. So it’s a fundraiser but it’s also to get our message out. And we’re doing it for free most of the time because we want to circumvent the capitalist souvenir part of it.
43.1.2.4.2. What if we adjust the price so that not much profit is made off of these shirts, in this way we can undercut the entrepreneurs and avoid capitalistic intention
Response: Our problem with the entrepreneurs is that they are selling blank t-shirts, and they pocket the donations and then I screen the t-shirts, and then the occupy movement doesn’t get any donations."
Gee, maybe I got the impression that, "We are against Wall Street, we are against capitalism. We need to allocate our donations for our struggles against capitalism. That is why we are here." by Hampton and the response by the requestor of "And we’re doing it for free most of the time because we want to circumvent the capitalist souvenir part of it." and the third responder, "and avoid capitalistic intention" to be anti-capitalist.
I don't get my opinion of OWS from the news, I get it from their own proclaimed sources of their minutes and their livestreams.
If you read the minutes and believe that the wording, spelling, punctuation and sentence structure are indicative of the intellect behind this movement, I would agree with you on that one.
Rita - What you cut and pasted was an ongoing conversation that took place at a General Assembly transcribed by someone feverishly trying to keep up with the conversation.
Have you aver attempted to do that? And by the way, I just spell checked all of the text from the GA Minutes you quoted and there are no misspelled words.
Poor sentence construction perhaps. But PLEASE don't make me go back and start quoting to you from GWB's speeches! That wouldn't be a "strategery" decision on your part.
Look, it's not like the GA all took a vote and agreed with everything that Hampton guy said. It was a conversation!
That being said, I see his point.
He is saying that supporting the OWS movement and getting the message out shouldn't be allowed to become an opportunity for some vulture who may or may not actually support the movement to sweep in and make a bunch of money.
If you were holding a Pro-Life, anti-abortion rally, how would you feel if a bunch of pro-choice folks swooped in and figured out a way that they could make money for their cause by using your cause? How would you feel about that?
I'm curious...did you actually go to the URL I sent you and read the ACTUAL OWS Constitution? Have you ever been to an Occupy rally and talked to anyone?
Trying to determine what the OWS folks stand for (or against) by reading the GA Minutes is like trying to determine what the United States stands for by listening to partisan bickering on the floor of the House of Representatives during a debate on stem cell research.
The OWS movement is a work in progress.
The Tea Party, however, is dead and buried by the very people they chose to represent them.
I'll put a comment or speech from any random member of the OWS movement up against and of the goonbabble that springs forth from the pie holes of Michelle Bachmann, Sarah Palin or Rick Perry. And don't even get me started on fountain of nonsense named Ron Paul.
The Tea Party is alive and well. They are organized,have legislative meetings,they invite candidates,they have fund raisers. They were out in full force in 2010 and you will see them in full force in 2012,not with naked women and bongs, but with informative literature and peaceful demonstrations.
And they will be much larger in 2012 because they see the type of supporters Obama has. So the more these flea baggers keep up their thuggery and their drum banging and cult like finger wiggling ,and anti-semitic ramblings,the more votes against Obama.
Lisa - Oh my goodness.
Look, the Tea Party represents the EXTREME Right just like the OWS represents the EXTREME Left.
In fact, both sides are so extreme, they actually meet and agree at several points!
But elections aren't won by the extremes.
They are decided and won by the mostly rational and unpartisan independent voters who aren't interested in yelling and screaming and extreme positions.
Middle America just want the politicians they elect to go to work, make deals, compromise and put the needs of the country above the needs of their party.
They are paying a lot for government and they expect it to work.
The Independent voters in Middle America are NOT going to vote for any of the current Republican candidates!
Let's start with the Mormons. Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman want voters to think that Mormons are just anoter sect of mainstream Christianity. No different than Catholics, Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans or Episcopalians.
But they aren't Christians. Jo Joe, back me up here!
Mormons believe that "The status of a person in the afterlife is determined by the way that person lived his/her life on Earth. If the person lived by a satisfactory standard, (including the fulfillment of Mormon temple obligations) that person has the potential to become a god in the after-life. The person can also produce "spirit children" to populate a world of his own (like God did with the earth)."
They also believe that the Garden of Eden was in Jackson County, Missouri. When Jesus returns he will rule from Independence, MO (they set a place at the Temple dinner table for Jesus every night just in case he shows up). And the people we think of as Native Americans are descendants of the Lost Tribes of Israel.
So let's just agree that Middle America won't want anyone who wears Magic Underwear and thinks Cherokees are Jewish to have their finger on the nuclear trigger.
Add to that the fact that Romney's flip flopping makes Al Gore look like a granite statue of unyielding principal and Huntsman was Obama's Ambassador to China and I can guarantee you that neither of the Mormons can beat Obama among independent voters.
Ain't gonna happen.
End of Chapter 1.
They call their meetings General Assemblies, they call the "notes" minutes, not transcripts.
They claim the GA's ARE reflective of the movement.
You don't have to cherry-pick the minutes, you can find plenty of the most ridiculous proposals, conversations and requests (and approval) for money.
Like the guy that had approval from the "finance working group" for printing. Weekly funding of $4k for 8k or 10k sheets at FOUR CENTS a copy. When someone finally questioned the math, the guy said that Finance had looked it over and thought it was worthy to be funded.
Here, you want spelling (or stupidity, who can tell the difference?)....
"These copies were meant for you to keep for a long time, sort of a collectors addition…not to get too nerded out."
"F: This is raising your hand, what you want to do to get on stack. The stack taker will jot down your name, and maybe an article of cloths you are wearing."
"F: Another temperate check about discussing this proposal tonight? (temp check positive)'
"We hope to get more texts consensed upon by the GA to compose an OWS Reader. We have 10,000 copies of the Declaration that you guys wrote, right here."
"47.6.1 Direct Action:
Hey everybody! On saturday there’s going to be an “obama don’t be a puppet for the banks” because he’s doing behind the back deals with the banks so they don’t have to pay fraud charges to the district attorneys. So we’re going to have a giant obama puppet here on saturday at 2PM Liberty Square and going to Foley Square. The other thing is were’ going toahve a big Strcutre meeting tomorrow you can meet us at 1:45PM at 60 Wall st and we’ll go off-site from there,but were’ going to be talking about how we can make direct actions bigger and more all-encompassing and how we can incorporate htat in the meetings."
If your spell-checker is okay with those, then I would suggest you find another one.
Lisa - Chapter 2. Rick Perry and Michelle Bachmann.
These two are deeply imbedded in the Dominionism Movement which believes that Christians should rule the world.
Rick Perry's Texas Prayer Rally was organized by Dominionists.
"...a recent Texas Observer cover story on Rick Perry examined his relationship with the New Apostolic Reformation, a Dominionist variant of Pentecostalism that coalesced about a decade ago. “[W]hat makes the New Apostolic Reformation movement so potent is its growing fascination with infiltrating politics and government,” wrote Forrest Wilder. Its members “believe Christians—certain Christians—are destined to not just take ‘dominion’ over government, but stealthily climb to the commanding heights of what they term the ‘Seven Mountains’ of society, including the media and the arts and entertainment world.”"
Rick Perry also leases a hunting camp called "Niggerhead Ranch", a name proudly carved in a huge rock at the entrance.
Rick Perry also believes he and his supporters can prat away the Texas drought.
Texas is still in the midst of the worst drought in it's history and has experienced Hades-like wildfires as a result. So, prayer ain't working.
Unless you accept the fact that prayer DOES work and God WANTS Texas to bake and burn.
So that's Perry.
Lisa - Bachmann. Good Lord.
"Bachmann is close to Truth in Action Ministries; last year, she appeared in one of its documentaries, Socialism: A Clear and Present Danger. In it, she espoused the idea, common in Reconstructionist circles, that the government has no right to collect taxes in excess of 10 percent, the amount that believers are called to tithe to the church. On her state-senate-campaign website, she recommended a book co-authored by Grant titled Call of Duty: The Sterling Nobility of Robert E. Lee, which, as Lizza reported, depicted the civil war as a battle between the devout Christian South and the Godless North, and lauded slavery as a benevolent institution. “The unity and companionship that existed between the races in the South prior to the war was the fruit of a common faith,” the book said."
Her husband, Marcus Bachmann, is SO CLEARLY a self-loathing, closeted homosexual who thinks that one can "pray the gay away".
It's no mystery that Michele and Marcus' children are all adopted. There's a reason for that.
http://youtu.be/HAJoeiy4NHA
She is an ignorant fraud.
Independent voters will NOT elect her.
Lisa - Herman Cain.
Never held an elected office and CLEARLY has never been in a national campaign.
Did he really think that because he skated over sexual harrasment charges as the chairman of a national restaurant association that those charges wouldn't bubble to the surface if he ran for President?
This guy is not only unelectable, he doesn't even want to be President! He wants to continue giving motivational speeches, selling books and making money!
When he drops out of the race his self-righteous, racially-tinged motivational seminars will bring in even more money. Look for another book.
Hypocrite.
Lisa - all the rest.
Newt Gingrich - Served his ex-wife with divorce papers while she lay dying of cancer so he could marry the campaign staffer he had been havin an affair with while his wife was fighting for her life.
What American wouldn't want to elect someone with the Moral Authority of Newt Gingrich?
Surely he represents the Ozzie Nelson / Ike Eisenhower model of Republican role model that every true American should aspire to.
Rick Santorum - Oh please. Did you see his performance in the debates? He's like a 12 year old.
Ron Paul - If he had his way, we would all be holed up in log cabins, armed to the teeth, no roads, no railways, no plumbing, no schools, no interstate commerce, no armed forces and no foreign policy or banking system. Just a bunch of "Americans" with no health care fending for themselves as best they can. "Hi neighbor! I was just diagnosed with cancer. Could I borrow a cup of chemo-therapy and lay down on your uranium deposit for a few minutes?"
Absolutely INSANE!
Lisa - The Republicans have NO ONE that Independent voters will elect.
Obama is a shoe in for another 4 years and the more the Republicans speak the more assured that outcome is.
So please...keep talking.
Oh Rita - You have clearly never been involved in a delibrative body.
"Minutes" ARE transcripts.
And General Assemblies are reflective of the movememt in the same way that all of Constitutional Convention debates are reflective of America.
Not everything discussed in the Constitutional Convention made it into the final Constitution! It was a CONVERSATION!
Their was uglieness and unpleasantries were exchanged. People disagreed with each other. Sometimes violently. A Democracy is not a pretty undertaking.
I do so wish the people on the Right understood as much about our Republic and our history as they think they do.
good luck with that XO . What is Obama going to run on? Health care? The economy? The Patriot Act on Steroids? A 3rd war,possibly a
4th?
Herman Cain' numbers haven't been hurt..yet by those allegations.
But you know Clinton lowered the bar on morality and got re-elected.
Besides I think you will find most people are not happy with Obama and his handling of the economy for most people is "job" one.
The only thing he has on his side is that his health care policies aren't kicking in until 2013 which was purely by design being him and the dems know what a disaster it is going to be. But back to the Tea Party who got people active and got them to get informed and they have alright and they have revealed the man behind the curtain and seing how the EU is going ,Americans are seeing what they don't want.
Lisa - "What is Obama going to run on?"
I would suggest asking the American people where we would be today under a McCain / Palin administration and where you think we would be 4 years from now under a Romney / Bachmann administraion.
That frames the Obama years as a period of rationality and sanity bracketed by years of potential incompotence and insanity of biblical porportions.
The American economy is actually improving. Obama's policies are working. Give it another year.
You Republicans have nothing. You have no plan but complete elimination of the Federal governmant and surrender to unfettered corporate greed.
Put guns in everyone's hands, replace all secular laws with biblical laws, let greed rule the land and let every man fend for himself.
Let anyone sell anything to anybody under any pretense. No regulations, just a Free Market. If I sell you a poison Twinkie that kills your kid, well, you won't buy my Twinkies anymore. Serves me right! I lose business. That's capitalism at work!
But criminal charges against me for negligence, manslaughter or homicide would be an over-reaching government interferring in a Free Market.
It's a Twinkie! Don't want it, don't buy it! Keep the government out of it!
You people are delusional. Seriously. Get an MRI.
OH XO.
NO, YOU have CLEARLY never been involved with a deliberative body.
I had to study Robert's Rules of Order when I was in high school for a state office I held AS THE STATE SECRETARY. They don't call those "minute takers" and Board Secretaries are not administrative assistants. Since you don't seem to have any familiarity with the process, a Board's Secretary is responsible for the MINUTES. Minutes are NOT transcripts.
And, I was the Director of Internal Audit for a corporation, reporting to the Board of Directors for ten years. Nah, no minutes ever taken there, written, read and approved by the Board. At least none that read, "Hi, I'm Jan with the Happiness Committee."
Since I am a "novice" according to you, wanna clue me in on what "note takers" and "minute takers" actually do?
When even a high-school state club organization can manage to take proper minutes, this great occupation should be capable of finding someone to "note take" without officially looking like buffoons.
I'm done debating with your commenters Joe. I enjoy an intelligent debate, when there is intelligent life present.
Rita - I am very familiar with Robert's Rules of Order. I read them, learned them and committed them to memory before I ever participated in a delibrative body. I was 13. I found them fascinating as a stand-alone framework of formal, structured debate.
I see your confusion.
Under the strict Robert's Rules, what the OWS GA calls "Minutes" are not Robert's "Minutes".
Robert's Minutes are "The record of the proceedings of a deliberative assembly is usually called the Minutes, or the Record, or the Journal. In the meetings of ordinary societies, there is no object in reporting the debates; the duty of the secretary, in such cases, is mainly to record what is "done" by the assembly, and not what is said by the members."
What the OWS-NYC GA are posting as "Minutes" are a verbatim (as much as possible) posting of what was said, rather than what was done.
They apparently do not share our fetish for strict adherism to Robert's Rules.
So what?
If spelling, grammer, proper sentence construction and logic determine the validity of a point of view, then 8 years of GWB were an abomination of such serious repercussions that we should go to whatever extremes necessary to correct that disaster.
Joe, why have you posted a picture of glass being broken by London rioters earlier in the year and claimed its OWS?
Some of your readers are easily confused. You should assist them by being accurate'
Language Alert Jo Joe.
You don't allow that sort of thing here, do you?
And today the "legendary" David Crosby and Graham Nash are going down to Zuccotti Park to play a few protest songs to entertain the illegal bunch of parasite squatters. Isn't that great? Where is Joan Baez and her tambourine singing Kumbaya when we need her?
XO - On Joe's Blog - Vulgarities are only considered vulgar if written by Vulgar Liberals - and fourth graders.
I have never seen this kind of unabashed hatred and vulgarity on any of the conservative websites that I frequent. The Daily Kos is one of the top liberal web-sites. Why do liberals get a pass for such bad behavior?
Why is it that liberals always seem to hate those who they disagree with and never seem to keep a debate civil.
sue hanes here seems to fit the patten well.
Serp - You haven't been around long - have you.
Otherwise you would know that Joe never cuts me any slack.
I can see why.
Serp - You know Joe used to claim that not only I was not a Liberal but I was a nice person.
Boy was he wrong.
Joe - I may be on the far side of 60 but after a second look at those OWC pictures that one with the couple naked under the sheet is really starting to appeal to me.
or maybe i've just been pushing too much furniture around
Mal no doubt being paid by Soros
Mr Money bags
XO Obama has no policies expect for getting more people on food stamps. The guy had no interest in the economy until now because the upcoming election.
The health care bill and its huge costs were also designed not to kick in till 2013. Talk about propaganda.
I wish we didn't have to give him another year.
XO Obama has no policies expect for getting more people on food stamps. The guy had no interest in the economy until now because the upcoming election.
The health care bill and its huge costs were also designed not to kick in till 2013. Talk about propaganda.
I wish we didn't have to give him another year.
Lisa - Obama came into office COMPLETELY focused on the economy because of the mess that GWB left behind and he has been focusing on the economy every day since.
Where do you get YOUR news from. Oh yeah. Bet I can guess.
As far as putting up with him for another year...better make that 5. Because no one on the Republican side is bringing anything to the table except crazy.
XO - I'm beginning to doubt your commitment to the 9-9-9 plan.
Ducky - Been playing with the numbers. There are so many mathematical jokes and puns that can be had by combining 999 in various combinations.
None of them create any jobs, fix our economic problems or make any sexual harassment charges go away, but they are fun to play with.
Hey Joe: I like your posts, but until this quits becoming the XO, Ducky and Sue Comedy Show, I'm out.
It would be great if you can start getting some commenters from the left that can actually engage in a political debate with some intellectual discussion where we can find some common ground.
Until then, this has just become a joke.
Rita - Actually, Ducky and I have been trying to "engage in a political debate with some intellectual discussion where we can find some common ground".
The problem has been, everytime we present actual facts, Jo Joe and his sycophants retreat into their philosophical caves and hide behind their rhetorical walls refusing to defend their positions with anything other than Fox News talking points.
Jo Joe, The Malcontent, The Lone Ranger and the rest of this clown car of misinformation are wilfully decieving the readership of this blog.
I have a problem with that.
I suspect Ducky does too.
Question, Rita - If you were being lied to, wouldn't you want someone to let you know?
Or would you prefer to live in ignorance believing whatever you were told?
Rita - I don't know how long you have been reading and commenting on Joe's blog.
Or maybe you just haven't noticed.
But Joe has a sense of humor and does not discourage the practice of humor here on his blog - unless it is vulgar.
Joe has a clever way with words and likes to show that.
Yes the discussions here get serious - but I have not seen Joe object to occasional humor on his blog.
Good humor is a good thing on a good blog.
Rita: You will notice that I have been absent from commenting on much of this string.
That is because it has become a total farce, with OX, Ducky and sue hanes monopolizing the conversation with the exact tactics they accues conservatives of using.
They are useless, lying bores and cannot see it in themselves.
Serpantdove edited comments: I can remember the 60's when I was in college and seeing some hippies then. And giving the peace sign with their 2 fingers in a V and saying "Hey love brother" and then damaging the city, ruining near by business's, destroying property, broking the law just as they are doing today. Giving the the peace sign as if it justified whatever mayhem they committed. The OWS mob are repeating the same crap over again.
America will be a better place without Barack Obama and George Soros.
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