Monday, May 23, 2011

HANDLING RADICAL ISLAM-Andrew Klavan on the Culture

22 comments:

Ducky's here said...

Sorry Joe, Serrano, Ofili and Wojnarowicz never received public funding. Ofili isn't even American.

Get it? No public funding.

However, the censorship machine of the far right has been quite successful in challenging the National Endowment for the Arts and PBS with trumped up accusations.

So I didn't bother to listen to the rest of Klavan because as usual he's lying.

Ducky's here said...

It's also worth noting that the only place that reacted to the idiot Jones Quran burning was Afghanistan. A nation we are occupying and are engaged in war with a portion of the population.

Now at the time we were having a little spit-spat with our ally Karzai who wasn't getting the payoffs he expected. So he used the burning as an excuse to excite some protests and get our attention. Pay me or suffer the consequences.

The Jones stupidity didn't even catch any interest in Pakistan or Iran. Only our ally Karzai paid any attention.

This is a little sophisticated for Klavan, who is a real dunce, but you might find it interesting.

Lone Ranger said...

There are no radical Muslims. How can anyone be radical if the ultimate goal of their religion is to subjugate the entire world? They're just following the directions of their prophet.

There are no radical democrats. How can anyone be radical when there are no boundaries to their actions?

There are, however, radical Republicans. It was the Radical Republicans who forced Lincoln to end slavery. And now, democrats accuse radical Republicans of trying to end abortion. Those wascally wepublicans. Always sticking their noses into the business of democrats.

Z said...

Ducky, did you see any Christian AMericans killing over Serrano, Ofili and Wojnarowicz's 'art'? Do you understand that that's Klavan's point?

By the way....who's lying, Ducky?:

http://www.infowars.com/iran-blames-israel-for-koran-burning-event/

http://blog.echurchwebsites.org.uk/2010/09/15/terry-joness-aborted-koran-burning-spun-irans-supreme-leader-ayatollah-ali-khamenei-whip-hatred-murder/

"only Afghanistan reacted"? Ya, right.

Klavan made so much sense in this piece that it's easy to see why you hone in one that one point you think you can criticize, but, of course, the differences in how Christians deal with huge insult and how Muslims do is obvious. Who's the 'real dunce', Ducky?

Mustang said...

It isn’t difficult to detect Ducky’s blatant dishonesty. Andres Serrano’s filth won an award from the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art, an organization sponsored in part by the National Endowment for the Arts, a United States government agency. Even one second of the government’s time wasted on Andres Serrano is a waste of the taxpayer’s money.

It is difficult to determine which person is more vile: Ducky or Serrano.

Ducky's here said...

That's right mustang he won an award which included cash and a one man show. The award was NOT given for "Piss Christ".

Got it marine? He was not directly funded (few artists are through te NEA directly) and the award was not given to the work that offends your delicate sensibilities.
Got it marine or is this to complex for you to handle.

By the way, NEA only supplied a small percentage of the prize. The rest came from foundations and the likes of Bank of America (pre TARP of course).

There was no direct funding. The fact that the arts organization (extremely well respected) awarded him the show (and I'm not sure if "Piss Christ" was even in that show) was out of the NEA's purview.

Lisa said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Lisa said...

I love the way the left are the ones who were all over Jones using their outrage about our troops safety when its our media who made sure it went public not to mention all the other things they made sure to make public. Like Abu- Grab,Gitmo and water boarding. I don't remember their overwhelming support for the troops then.
And of course that stupid remark by John Kerry about our troops going into homes in the dead of night killing women and children without knowing the entire story but that is typical of lefties like when they accuse cops of "Acting Stupidly" without knowing the whole story.
What we do without their superior wisdom is beyond me.

Ducky's here said...

Why would you demonstrate, z? You have the U.S. Senate doing your bidding. You have consistently got what you want.

Remember when Scorcese's "Last temptation of Christ" came out and the right had it picketed and pulled from the shelves at the rental stores? okay, it's a lousy film but censorship might have been a bit much. You get more this way than you would through demonstrations and the right has been very active censors.

Also, even though the liberal (LMAO) media didn't spend much time o it, you'll remember that a bunch of your heroes had been caught acting like rabid animals in Afghanistan and were caught randomly executing civilians and posing with the corpses. That is the environment that existed there when Jones decided to get stupid. Karsai had exactly what he needed.

Ducky's here said...

Oh I'm sorry, z, you're right. The Supreme Council used it to astroturf a demonstration. Big whoop.

Anti-American demonstrations are rare in Tehran.

Sam Huntington said...

The NEA is an agency of the United States government. It has NO BUSINESS spending public money on religious statements, pro or con. No matter how much malarkey Ducky tosses at this, the bottom line is that Mustang correctly identified Serrano as vile, and if Ducky isn’t depraved and loathsome, then he is likely one of this country’s biggest idiots. Now, if NEA is chartered to provide support and funding for projects exhibiting artistic excellence, how is Piss Christ an example of artistic excellence? Is Ducky THAT stupid?

Z said...

Good try, DUcky....as you said "the only place that reacted to the idiot".....hmmm So I prove you wrong (there are many more links if you Google) and you deflect.

Sam, Mustang, as you both know, there is no decency with people like Ducky; urine is art, especially when Christ's image is in it, but Ducky can argue about who financed it and think he won.
This is a terrible problem in America or any society; when there is no RIGHT or WRONG according to leftwingers. And, God forbid, anybody says "WRONG", then you're a racist or a homophobe or don't appreciate art.
As my post today discusses.

We're all WRONG...Ducky's right...that's the only wrong/right he'll agree to.

Joe said...

Ducky: Klavan did not tell one single lie.

His was an exercise in contrast, not a setting out of data.

He was contrasting the reactions of Christians to offenses to the reaction of Afghans to offenses.

I take it that you support the beheading of people who not even related to the supposed offense.

When you comment on something you did not watch, it does not make you look more intelligent, or educated, it make you look stupid.

There is only one dunce here, and it is neither Klavan nor me.

Hayden said...

Ducky proves Ralph Waldo Emerson right when he wrote, “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds …” No one is more foolishly consistent than Ducky; consistently unintelligent, consistently un-Christian, consistently un-Catholic, and consistently un-American. The man is a fool. Everyone says so.

Ducky's here said...

Joe, the lie is this. When the Serrano controversy came down, right wing hero Jesse helms DELIBERATELY gave the impression that the NEA had directly funded "Piss Christ". It did nothing of the sort.
Now you have me on a technicality that NEA money does eventually get into the hands of artists but not directly. In fact they act on more of a Federalist model and work with local organizations who make the decisions.

In this case, the prize was NOT awarded to Serrano for the work in question. Thanks to the publicity though a print recently went at auction for $150,000 so the censorship only goes so far.

The other two that he mentioned were merely single works in large group shows. Of course we don't ever want a work to offend your sensibilities so anything that is the least bit radical is now often self censored thanks to the far right censorship machine.
As I said, no need for demonstrations since you have Congress doing your bidding. It only works to a certain extent though. Wojnarowicz's work was immediately displayed at the Boston Institute for Contemporary Art.

So nothing the guy said is prima face a lie but he presents it in a completely invalid context. And the right wing world becomes narrower and more dogmatic and we continue as a nation to lose our way.

Everyone says so, Haydn? The students in my class were very complimentary this year. We just finished up with L'Herbier's film adaptation of Zola's "L'Argent".
One student thought it was much more open minded than the "Rand film" and it's central issue of a "good" vs. "bad" capitalist was heartily debated.
What they came away with was the techniques L'Herbier used to visually manipulate our reaction to the character and I look forward to them applying that critical ability in the future.
Oh, the film was subsidized back in the 30's. Darn French government helped fund one of the greatest silent classics. You should give it a look.

Ducky's here said...

Contrast, Joe?

You mean there is likely to be a contrast in the response of a wealthy industrialized nation vs. the response of one of the poorest nations on earth which is also under military occupation?

Wow, color me shocked.

And just what do we do with this contrast? Call all Muslims "mosque monkeys" as does advanced intelligence mustang? Or do we learn that if we sincerely want to progress we need to be more thorough and analytical?

I know I'm in a minority but I firmly believe art helps us with the latter. I'm not as open minded as a great Randoid like Haydn but I'm working on it.

Light a candle or curse the darkness, Joe. You seem to enjoy cursing.

Ducky's here said...

... also, Joe, there were demonstrations over exhibiting Serrano in Europe and Australia canceled the show due to threats of violence.

Joe said...

Ducky: You said, "...he presents it in a completely invalid context."

Bull. Afghans did what they did and Christians did not do the same thing...that's contrast in context

You asked, "You mean there is likely to be a contrast in the response of a wealthy industrialized nation vs. the response of one of the poorest nations on earth which is also under military occupation?"

Right...being poor justifies beheading. All poor people behead other people...right?

You asked, "And just what do we do with this contrast?"

First of all, admit to it. Then abhor the worst response, appreciate the other.

That's the civilized thing to do.

Now you know.

No charge for the education.

Ducky's here said...

Joe, why do you dodge the issue of this having been merely a catalyst for the reaction to the real issue of the American military acting like animals and killing civilians randomly.

The moron Klavan does believe that bigots like yourself and mustang will continue to keep the blinders on but he is preaching to a rather tone deaf choir.

Joe said...

Ducky: "...the American military acting like animals and killing civilians randomly."

IF that was done (and the evidence is not there that it did), it was as abhorable as the Afghans' response to the burning of Koran.

But tither way, that is not relevant to the issue.

The issue is the difference between the Christian response to Afghan insults, and the Afghan response to Americn insults.

Try hard to stay on topic.

I know, it's hard.

It's probably hard for your ilk to know when they are off topic.

Z said...

Man, the difference is AMerican soldiers trained not to hurt civilians but a few flip out and take their frustrations out in horrible ways, IF it is true...contrasted to a people whose AIM is collateral damage to as many innocents as they can find.......
What's the issue?

Joe said...

Z: The issue is actually Ducky.