Wednesday, August 14, 2013

L vs C

31 comments:

sue hanes said...

Joe - Well - these are the opinionsn of this one person and we are supposed to believe them.

I'd say to him - nice try.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

This "one person" is one of the most brilliant men of our time. His opinions are based on experience and the facts of history. Perhaps if everyone was to read Sowell's works, this nation would be one heck of a lot better.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "...one of the most brilliant men of our time...". Why? Because he compared Obama to Hitler for holding BP responsible for their oil spill???

No one outside of Fox News takes Sowell seriously. He's a deranged, right-wing nut job who makes his living by pandering to the lunatic fringe.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Sowell's been around longer than Fox News.

The only one deranged here is X.O. and his idol Obamanation. Sowell presents the truth about the liberal/progressive agenda and leftists can't handle that.

Joe said...

sh: So, which one person would you believe?

GEC: He has written some great stuff. And he is much more brilliant than XO.

XO: "He's a deranged, right-wing nut job who makes his living by pandering to the lunatic fringe."

No, he's not. And he doesn't.

My Conservative Thoughts said...

Hey Xavier Onassis ...It's not a "theory" dumb-ass. These are actual facts.
But hey, in your mind Obama is the "messiah" - so I don't expect you to call him out when he does something nefarious.

sue hanes said...

Joe - Not this one.

Duckys here said...

@XO --- G.E.C. - "...one of the most brilliant men of our time...". Why? Because he compared Obama to Hitler for holding BP responsible for their oil spill???
----------
For the win by a knockout.

But to the right wing anyone espousing an extreme laissez-faire philosophy which limits freedom by ignoring conflicts of interest is a "great thinker". This hack is second only to Ayn Rand and Louie Gohmert in the right wing pantheon.

Newton Gingrich has it right. The Republican party is cooked. Time for a purge Glenn and the fundamentalists are going to be the first to go.

Xavier Onassis said...

Thomas Sowell is a clown.

In an October 22, 2008 article, before Obama was even elected to his first term, Sowell compared Obama to Adolph Hitler, Jim Jones and Mao Zedong.

ALL IN THE SAME ARTICLE! And Obama wasn't even president yet!

Idiot!

Let's look at what he said in the video Joe posted:

He claims that during his ONE SUMMER in the government he tried to raise the question of whether minimum wage laws helped people or hurt people. He claims no one wanted to listen to him.

I'm curious...what exactly was his job that summer? Was he brought in as a high level policy advisor with a particular expertise in labor relations, the historical economic impact of unions or any other qualification that would make him someone to whom others should listen?

Or was he, perhaps, a summer intern whose job it was to clear paper jams in the copier and make sure they break room was well stocked with coffee supplies?

He refers to Liberals as "the Anointed Ones" and says "They are people who seriously believe that they are wiser and nobler than others,and the way to improve society is to have the government force people to follow what the Anointed Ones want rather than let people do what they themselves want to do."

Guilty as charged. For instance, what "the people themselves" wanted to do was keep Africans as slaves, deny Africans education or due process under the law, deny Africans the right to choose who they wanted to fall in love with, who they could marry, where they could live, where they could work and what public facilities they could have access to.

Us "uppity liberals" decided that we were, in fact, wiser and nobler than the racist bigots carrying out these atrocities and we brought the Government in to put a stop to it.

He goes on to defend Walmart saying "f you are paying people for their work, instead of just paying them what they think they need, uh, then clearly these people wouldn't be working for Walmart if someone else thought there work was worth more than what Walmart is paying."

Again, he's an idiot! Perhaps he has never been to small town America where there used to by thriving mom and pop businesses who would hire the local workers, offer some stability and upward mobility and who competed with the other small merchants in their town for both business and workers.

Until Walmart moved into these small towns and ground every single small business into the dust. In these towns today, there ARE NO OTHER EMPLOYERS. Walmart holds the local labor market hostage. There is no other place to go!

For such a "brilliant" guy, he has no idea what he's talking about.

Finally, he outlines the Conservative position.

"That Man is flawed from Day One, and that there are no solutions, there are only trade offs, and whatever you do to deal with one of Man's flaws it creates another problem, but that you try to get the best trade off you can get, and that's all you can hope for."

What a bleak, pessimistic, dystopian and completely un-American view of the world!

""Flawed from Day One"? Why? Because a naked woman took dietary advice from a talking snake???

"No solutions"?

The Declaration of Independence was a solution to a problem.

The Constitution of the United States was a solution to a problem.

The Bill of Rights was a solution to a problem.

The Emancipation Proclamation was a solution to a problem.

The Voting Rights Act was a solution to a problem.

But according to this clown, I guess we should have stayed under British Rule, left slavery in place and just learned to live with our "flaws" rather than let people who were wiser and nobler lead us out of that mess and into a better world.

And this is who you think is "one of the most brilliant men of our time".

Maybe you should look up the word "brilliant". I do not think it means what you think it means.

Anonymous said...

Most sensible people realize that all liberals are stupid, anti-patriotic, dumb...and you name it. Of you need an example of it, just take a trip down to the blog called Progressive Eruptions and read some of the trash written there by the authur a Dummy called Shaw Kenawe and see the hypocrisy and mindcontrolling manipulative pile of leftist garbage for what it is and the fact of the architects being the only beneficiary of such socialist politics.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

Lots of assertions about what YOU think Sowell thinks about things which he never said.

And everything he said is true. You just don't like the truth, so those who speak it are "idiots" in your book.

You do indeed think you are one of the anointed - those who have the right to determine what is best for everyone else. Which is why we have socialism - because of idiot lemmings like you.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "Which is why we have socialism..."

You should look that word up too.

Stock market is at an all time high, Wall Street profits are hitting record levels and we have millions of people below the poverty line with no jobs, no food and no health care.

That isn't socialism. It is a shining example of unfettered capitalism.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

No Jobs and no food.... All caused by Obamanation's policies.

And the "poverty level" in the U.S.A. is very flexible and always has been; it's whatever politicians want to call it. Almost all those below the poverty level I've ever seen look very much well-fed and usually obese. They have cell phones, vehicles and satellite TV very often. Real poor in the USA are very, very few. And most are that way because of their poor choices in life, and most stay that way by voting in Demokrats who keep them in such status.

Everyone has health care available when needed. Emergency rooms never turn anyone down, and the state takes care of payments for real illnesses for those who actually seek medical care. And there are free clinics all over the place.

Just because the US isn't full-blown socialist, that doesn't mean the policies aren't in place to make it that way, which is what Obama wants - following his Cloward-Piven agenda.

Craig said...

No Jobs and no food.... All caused by Obamanation's policies.

Which of his policies caused the meltdown in aught 8 & 9?

And the "poverty level" in the U.S.A. is very flexible and always has been

Actually, it's a fairly rigid formula that determines the poverty level. Always has been.

Almost all those below the poverty level I've ever seen look very much well-fed and usually obese.

Since empty calorie, high fat, high sugar processed food is cheaper than fruits, veg, fresh meat and fish, whole grains, etc., yes, poor people are often overweight. That's not "well fed".

And most are that way because of their poor choices in life,

Stagnant and falling wages for the last 30 years is their fault. Outsourcing and the loss of our manufacturing base is their fault. Busting unions and collective bargaining is their fault. Turning over higher education to the bankers and "for profit" diploma mills is their fault. Selling our democratic republic to multi-national corporations and Wall Street is their fault. I see Walmart is losing ground. Their economic model is catching up with them. Pay people low, low wages and eventually they can't afford to buy Walmarts crap, even at low, low prices. Keep blaming the poor if it makes you feel better. Meanwhile, those at the top are stealing you blind.

Emergency rooms never turn anyone down

Emergency rooms are the most cost effective, right? We all end up paying for that at inflated prices. ER's don't do preventative care check ups. You really have no clue. Name one country that has abandoned their universal care and adopted the U.S. model. Name one country in the industrialized where anyone has had to go bankrupt or had their house forclosed on because of illness or injury. You can't. Our host owes his life to "socialized" health ins.

Just because the US isn't full-blown socialist, that doesn't mean the policies aren't in place to make it that way, which is what Obama wants - following his Cloward-Piven agenda.

I thought it a Marxist agenda, or a Muslim agenda, or an Alinski agenda, or anti-Semite agenda, or gay agenda. It's hard to keep up. I don't know much about Cloward but Piven was just Okay in
Entourage.


Craig said...

Ouch. I posted in a hurry. Ignore any misspelling, omissions and general sloppiness.

Xavier Onassis said...

Thanks Craig! I was too busy hobnobbing with European Socialists and Middle Eastern Muslims to deal with G.E.C. today.

F.Y.I. - Muslim food tastes better than Socialist food.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "Everyone has health care available when needed. Emergency rooms never turn anyone down..."

Well, that's good to know!

So, if I get cancer and I don't have health insurance, I can just show up at the ER and they will get me on a regular program of chemo or radiation treatments right there in the ER?

Or if I have high blood preasure and don't have any insurance to cover prescription drugs, I can just walk in to the ER once a month and they will give me my blood pressure medication?

Once again, you have proven that you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

Everyone has availability of health care. It is a matter of paying for it.

There is no Constitutional right to health care paid for by the government. THAT is the law.

Just because you think the government should be everyone's nanny from cradle to grave, that doesn't make it right or legal.

That's the problem with liberals. They think everyone is entitled to everything.

I know people in very low income levels and when they need health care the make arrangements for payment plans. It's called taking responsibility for yourself. And there are other ways of getting help without demanding it from the government.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "Everyone has availability of health care. It is a matter of paying for it."

And there we have it! No money, no healthcare, curl up in a ball and die, sucks to be you.

Do you realize, G.E.C., that the United States is the only modern, industrialized nation on the face of the planet where a sick person can be driven into bankruptcy, lose everything they own, just because they get sick?

Are you seriously OK with the self-proclaimed "Greatest Nation on Earth" telling it's citizens that if they can't afford to make rich people richer, they will be ineligible for any health care and will simply have to die?

Is that one of those subtle nuances of our "Christian Values" that I don't understand?

"I know people in very low income levels and when they need health care the make arrangements for payment plans. It's called taking responsibility for yourself. And there are other ways of getting help without demanding it from the government."

Really? So if one of these low income people you knoow needs to have lengthy chemotherapy or radiation treatments for an aggressive cancer, or if they need an organ transplant or a pacemaker, tell me G.E.C., what sort of payment plans are they able to make?

You telling me a hospital will give a low income person a heart transplant and monthly refills of their anti-rejection medications for the rest of their life for what...a promise to pay them back at a rate of $10 a month?

What planet do you live on? Clearly not this one.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X..O.

How many people do you know in these foreign countries with government health care? I know quite a few, and all I hear are complaints about the long waits for medical care, the government decisions as to whether they think the person is worthy of the care, etc. The U.S. health care system was the best in the world, and is the reason so many people came here for health care.

So, if people lose everything to pay for an illness, that therefore makes it right and proper for the government to come in and take over health care?!?!?! Find it in the bloody Constitution! You liberals go on emotion and forget that this is a nation - or rather was a nation - of law! There is no constitutional right for the feds to be involved in health care. None, nada. The proper way to do that is to make an amendment to the Constitution, but people like you and Obama and activist judges make laws arbitrarily to get the outcome you want and stomp all over the laws in place.

There you go with class warfare again- making people richer. Did it ever occur to you that one of the major increases in health care costs over the years is the fact that they have to carry so much malpractice insurance because of all the false malpractice cases? That bleeding hearts such as yourself decide someone has be at fault and therefore someone has to pay millions of dollars to someone who wouldn't have made that much in 16 lifetimes. Have you ever sat on a jury in a malpractice case? I have.

Part of the problem with our society is that we think everyone deserves new hearts, new livers, etc. Perhaps we should stop playing at being God and quit building Frankenstein's monsters. If someone is wealthy enough to pay for it, let them. But why should anyone else pay for it? Let them buy their own insurance - why charge my tax dollars.

As for "Christian Values" we don't worship the health care industry to start with. And the proper way to handle those in need is by private individuals - NOT THE GOVERNMENT!

Whenever we have people in the Church who have needs for medical expenses, food, clothing, shelter, or any other NEED, the church comes together and we give of OUR OWN money to help without demanding YOU give money and without STEALING FROM anyone to give THEIR money. WE give OUR OWN money. My wife and I have given thousands of dollars for benevolence needs. But libs rarely do so - they'd rather demand the government take care of them and steal more money from us in the form of "taxes" (lying SCOTUS calling Obamacare a tax).

You make me sick with your liberal hypocrisy.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "How many people do you know in these foreign countries with government health care? I know quite a few, and all I hear are complaints about the long waits for medical care, the government decisions as to whether they think the person is worthy of the care, etc."

Really? So tell me...how many of these countries where the health care is supposedly SOOO BAD have decided to dump their single payer socialist health care and adopt an Americanized health care system?

I'll save you the time...not a single one. There isn't a single one of those countries who have ever entertained the thought of abandoning their system and going with a system modeled after ours.

What does that tell you?

"The U.S. health care system was the best in the world, and is the reason so many people came here for health care."

Again, you are completely out of touch with reality. The fact of the matter is, American citizens are, in increasing numbers, going to other countries for their health care.

A case in point from Elisabeth Rosenthal's "Paying Till It Hurts" series in the New York Times published on August 3, 2013:

"WARSAW, Ind. — Michael Shopenn’s artificial hip was made by a company based in this remote town, a global center of joint manufacturing. But he had to fly to Europe to have it installed.

Mr. Shopenn, 67, an architectural photographer and avid snowboarder, had been in such pain from arthritis that he could not stand long enough to make coffee, let alone work. He had health insurance, but it would not cover a joint replacement because his degenerative disease was related to an old sports injury, thus considered a pre-existing condition.

Desperate to find an affordable solution, he reached out to a sailing buddy with friends at a medical device manufacturer, which arranged to provide his local hospital with an implant at what was described as the “list price” of $13,000, with no markup.

But when the hospital’s finance office estimated that the hospital charges would run another $65,000, not including the surgeon’s fee, he knew he had to think outside the box, and outside the country.

“That was a third of my savings at the time,” Mr. Shopenn said recently from the living room of his condo in Boulder, Colo. “It wasn’t happening.”

“Very leery” of going to a developing country like India or Thailand, which both draw so-called medical tourists, he ultimately chose to have his hip replaced in 2007 at a private hospital outside Brussels for $13,660.
That price included not only a hip joint, made by Warsaw-based Zimmer Holdings, but also all doctors’ fees, operating room charges, crutches, medicine, a hospital room for five days, a week in rehab and a round-trip ticket from America."

Tell me again how we have the best health care system in the world???

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - OH! And lest I forget..."Part of the problem with our society is that we think everyone deserves new hearts, new livers, etc. Perhaps we should stop playing at being God and quit building Frankenstein's monsters."

Frankenstein's monsters????????

Are you freaking serious???

So you are against organ transplants?

Give us the bottom line here G.E.C. Is it your position that all illness's are simnply The Will of God and we should completely abandon modern medecine and science and just let nature take its course?

Is that the kind of world you want to live in?

Oh, and I'm sure your church is quite generous with the occassional bag of groceries or even a house payment or two for those deathly ill parishioners. But is your collection plate big enough and your congrenation generous eneough to foot the full bill for millions of dollars worth of care for your fellow Christians with Cancer, AIDS, Tuburcilosis, Altzheimer's, Parkinson's and other long term debilitating, chornic ilnesses?

You doing your Christian Duty and taking complete care of those fine folks so they don't have to rely on any form of government assistance or the health insurance they can't afford?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.
No country with socialized medicine will ever leave it for the very reason they started it - CONTROL!!! They decide who will live and die, who will get what medical attention.

Americans go to other countries for health care usually for medical procedures and treatments our government outlaws, mostly as a way of controlling us.

Your anecdote which supposedly demonstrates that we DON’T have the best health care system in the world only demonstrates that he was able to get a cheaper cost overseas, most likely because the U.S. dollar went farther, and because their doctors don’t have the exorbitant fees paying for malpractice insurance caused by ambulance chasing lawyers! It says nothing about their health care being better.

Try again.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

I just love how you always seem to find ways to misrepresent your opposition.
I don’t think organ transplants are “wrong,” I just don’t think they are always a wise decision, and they certainly are not something to which anyone is entitled. If you have the money to pay for it, fine. But don’t expect anyone else to pay for it. If your insurance covers it, fine, but don’t expect the government to pay for it.

All illnesses are the will of God in that He allows the natural processes to take place. Could God prevent everyone from getting ill? Of course. But what would be the point? When God does heal miraculously, it is always for a purpose of point people to Him.

God also allowed mankind to discover ways of dealing with illnesses and injuries, but that doesn’t mean man should then decide to do his own creating and experimenting with things like cloning, and surrogate wombs, etc.

Your mockery of not only my church but all churches only demonstrates what a foolish and ignorant person you really are.

I’m not opposed to government help WHERE NEEDED, as well as that which is within Constitutional guidelines. What I am against is the government telling me what healthcare I must carry, what doctors I’m allowed to go to, telling employers that they have to provide health insurance, that health insurance must cover abortions, sex change operations, psychobabbler and chiroquacker fakery, etc. It is not the government’s business!

We have local free medical clinics staffed by doctors and dentists providing there services for free - all Christian. Where are the non-Christian free clinics?

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "No country with socialized medicine will ever leave it for the very reason they started it - CONTROL!!! They decide who will live and die, who will get what medical attention."

That is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard in my life.

They started socialized medicine BECAUSE IT WORKS! It guarantees affordable health care for every single citizen in the country!

"Americans go to other countries for health care usually for medical procedures and treatments our government outlaws, mostly as a way of controlling us."

Last time I checked, hip replacements weren't outlawed here.

"...only demonstrates that he was able to get a cheaper cost overseas, most likely because the U.S. dollar went farther, and because their doctors don’t have the exorbitant fees paying for malpractice insurance caused by ambulance chasing lawyers!"

Umm, no, it had nothing to do with the exchange rate. It has to do with the fact that in Belgium (and every other civilized country in the world), they don't add on ridiculous charges.

If you to a hospital in the United States for a surgery, one of the largest charges on your bill will be what's called a "facilities fee". That's the hospital charging you just for the hospital being there. Before they examine you, treat you or do anything at all, they charge you 10s of thousands of dollars just for you walking in the door.

When the reporters asked the Belgian doctors why they didn't charge a facilities fee they were incredulous! "How can you charge a facilities fee? You can't do anything without a facility. How can you you charge extra for that?"

"All illnesses are the will of God in that He allows the natural processes to take place. Could God prevent everyone from getting ill? Of course. But what would be the point? When God does heal miraculously, it is always for a purpose of point people to Him.

God also allowed mankind to discover ways of dealing with illnesses and injuries, but that doesn’t mean man should then decide to do his own creating and experimenting with things like cloning, and surrogate wombs, etc."

WOW! Just...wow! This is why you, people like you and people that you would actually vote for can NEVER, EVER be put in a position where they can pass laws or formulate public policy. That sort of willful ignorance of how things in this world actually work isn't just sad, it's DANGEROUS!

You've made your position pretty clear. You would look a woman with a dying child right in the eye and tell her "I would rather watch your little girl die than see a single dollar of my tax dollars go to save her life. But I'll be happy to pray with you. God can save her if he wants. But I won't."

What a despicable monster you are.



Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

You obviously don't know anyone living in countries with socialized medicine. I know several.

Again, the fees in the USA are to usually to pay for legal fees via insurance, etc, because in the USA we allow ambulance chasing and false charges.

Your last paragraph is nothing but lies and stupidity. Now wonder this country is so screwed up - liberals like you have no clue about truth and continue to misrepresent Christian beliefs.

No wonder I find you such a fool to have a conversation with. YOU are the despicable monster who sees nothing wrong with millions of children dying in the womb.

Oh, and by the way, by what moral standard can you judge me anyway!?!? Just your opinion, and that's all.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "YOU are the despicable monster who sees nothing wrong with millions of children dying in the womb."

Why is it you and your fellow Christians only care about them when they're in the womb? But once they're born, let 'em starve, let 'em get sick, let them go without an education, you don't care about them! Not if it means spending any of your precious taxes on them.

"Oh, and by the way, by what moral standard can you judge me anyway!?!? Just your opinion, and that's all."

You better hope it's just my opinion. Because by every single moral standard in the New Testament, by every word Jesus ever spoke, you aren't fit to even speak Jesus' name.

You have no compassion, no love, no generosity of spirit.

You are a small, mean, twisted little perversion of what it means to be human. You have no soul.

I pity you.

Craig said...

Glenn, Your beef should be with ins. co.s, not lawyers, re malpractice premiums. First of all, it's really hard to sue for malpractice. Even if you have a legit case you need to get other doctors to corroborate. Docs are like cops, reluctant to turn on their own.

Ins. co.s and "tort reform" advocates are really good at propagandizing what appear to be outlandish jury awards in "frivolous" lawsuits. On closer examination, they aren't frivolous and the awards are always reduced. Successful medical malpractice suits are rare.

States like Texas have limited awards and the result is no reduction in malpractice premiums for docs. Just more money in the pockets of ins. co.s. FYI, Texas also leads the league in uninsured, post natal humans.

As to the constitutionality of universal health care. Actually, single payer or a public option would on much firmer constitutional ground than the ACA. Art. 1, Sect. 8 and the General Welfare Clause make it a slam dunk.

BTW, the govt., your tax dollars, are already paying for those ER visits. So are your jacked up ins. premiums. The idea is to get everyone to chip in, the individual mandate. The result, according to the CBO and other non-partisan groups who've studied the ACA, is less govt. money (your precious tax dollar) spent on health care.

We've already tried the private charity, laissez faire capitalist route in this country. It didn't work out too well. See the Guilded Age.

The National Assoc. of Free Clinics, which hold massive clinics in underserved areas, have no religious affiliation. I'm sure many of the med. professionals that volunteer their time are Christian, but they are also Jew, Muslim, Sikh, Hindu, Zoroastrian and atheist. I won't deny that many Christians are generous but you don't have a lock on it. It's the chest thumping, usually by stingy "followers of Jesus", that's so unseemly.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

Again puts words in his detractors' mouths, claiming we care nothing about children who are born. You don't know anything about us, but keep spewing your liberal nonsense and lies.

By every moral standard in the Bible you are a monster, and you don't even know what is in there for you to make such charges against me. You don't even know me - all you know is the person who you keep making up by misrepresenting everything I say, because you can't stand truth.

I pity you, because you are a lemming of the Left and if you don't change you will spend eternity in Hell.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Craig,

The “General Welfare” clause does not make it a slam-dunk, because it ISN’T for the general welfare. MOST people have health insurance or access to it. So Obamacare is for the few who don’t. Also, there is nothing in the “general welfare” clause which would even hint at the government being able to tell employers that they have to provide health insurance for their employees, let alone what must be covered in that insurance. Using that clause in such a fashion opens it to use for anything. Really, anything. There is nothing that the government would want that could just be said, “It’s for the general welfare.” Laws for spying on citizens, confiscating private property, telling parents how to raise their families, etc, would all be covered under YOUR interpretation of the “general welfare” clause.

You are dreaming if you thing government heathcare, socialized medicine, is the panacea. Those who have it don’t like it. The government will determine whether they want to spend money on YOUR health.

If a form of government help for health care was put into law which would actually fit the Constitution, and would be for those who need it as nothing more than an insurance policy and not mandated on employers, etc, then I wouldn’t have much of a problem with it. But when my tax dollars are being spent for elective care which unnecessary, when it is being spent on things people think they are entitled to because of their irresponsible behavior, when it is spent on social engineering, etc, as is Obamacare, then it should not exist.

Funny how all the unions, congress, etc are being exempted from this “great” “Affordable Care Act.” If it is so good, then why are the libs wanting out?

Craig said...

Glenn, I guess I didn't make my self clear, single payer would be a slam dunk constitutionally. ACA is a bit murkier. Art. 1, Sect. 8, forget the WF clause. Real socialized medicine would meet your criteria for 'fit the Constitution'.

You are dreaming if you thing government heathcare, socialized medicine, is the panacea.

ACA is neither of those things.

Those who have it don’t like it.

In the U.S., satisfaction with coverage is tracked. #1- the VA (socialized medicine), #2- Medicare (socialized ins.). You have nothing but a couple anecdotes to back up your ridiculous claim. I've asked and XO asked but I'll ask again. Which country has said, "we like what America is doing" and has adopted the for profit, private ins. co., employer based ins. model?

The government will determine whether they want to spend money on YOUR health.

Your more comfortable with an unknown, unaccountable claims adjuster, whose sole goal is to maximize profit, making that determination? They are looking for any excuse to not pay.

Funny how all the unions, congress, etc are being exempted from this “great” “Affordable Care Act.” If it is so good, then why are the libs wanting out?

They're not. Congress exempt? BS. Unions? Pants on fire BS.