Wednesday, November 27, 2013

WITH A HAT TIP TO

GeeeeeZ

38 comments:

Xavier Onassis said...

That's the most ridiculous analogy I've ever seen.

A person can go their entire life without ever wanting or needing coffee. That is not true regarding healthcare.

There is no one who will not need healthcare at some point in their life.

Conservatives would be perfectly OK with seeing a doctor or hospital turning away someone bleeding to death or with a broken bone or with a runaway infection if they couldn't pay for the treatment on the spot.

Because Conservatives have no compassion. They care about no one but themselves.

Luckily, Liberals are both smarter and more compassionate than Conservatives. We know that eventually those greedy Conservatives with no health insurance (because they can't bear the thought of parting with any of their precious money) will drag their bleeding, infected carcasses into an emergency room somewhere begging for care that they can't pay for.

That is why having insurance is now a requirement, not an option. To protect society from the stupid people.

sue hanes said...

Joe - Very good comparison. Whoever thought this up is smart.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving and doen't forget to serve coffee.

Z said...

It is a perfect analogy but hard for people to grasp.

If ONLY the left would have listened to the Republican plan they still insist is nonexistent. :-) We could start by getting COSTS DOWN but that might tick off the companies which backed Obama..and Bush and Clinton, etc.

Thankfully, the stats who Conservatives give more in charity...
Fixing healthcare must happen. Ruining the country for it mustn't.

I'm wondering at anybody who'd actually believe Conservatives would be perfectly OK with seeing someone bleeding to death.
WHat kind of person thinks that? How AWFUL.

Duckys here said...

If only we had listened to Canada

Duckys here said...

z, can you sketch the Republican plan?

Just how do you expect to lower costs in a for profit system?
Lower profits? BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA.
Lower the availability of care to the high risk? Now we're getting someplace.

Xavier Onassis said...

Z - Please provide a link, or any details whatsoever to the nonexistent "Republican Plan".

"I'm wondering at anybody who'd actually believe Conservatives would be perfectly OK with seeing someone bleeding to death."

Listen to the crowd chant "LET THEM DIE!" at the Republican Presidential Debates.

Listen to Ron Paul suggest that families, neighbors and churches should pat for your chemotherapy and radiation treatments.

Listen to him suggest that government regulations should be lifted so that any witch doctor or charlatan can be allowed to offer whatever snake oil or voodoo they want and let the free market sort it out!

This is the INCREDIBLE STUPIDITY AND ANTI-SCIENTIFIC IGNORANCE that will keep the Republicans and Conservatives from ever holding power again.

IDIOTS!

http://gawker.com/5839564/gop-debate-crowd-on-uninsured-sick-americans-let-them-die

Duckys here said...

Listen to the crowd chant "LET THEM DIE!" at the Republican Presidential Debates.

----
Good dig, XO.
I had forgotten that moment of compassionate conservatism.

Duckys here said...

Remember this one, XO

I think this was a bigger Bagger hit than "I Am Not a Witch"

Xavier Onassis said...

Ducky - Ahahaha! I forgot about that one. "Just bring a chicken to the doctor".

Good GOD! How stupid can the right wing get?!?!?!?

This is why they can never, ever, under any circumstances, be allowed to control any branch of government.

They are IDIOTS.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

What a perfect, A-1 analogy to Obamacare.

Liberals are just too stupid to understand the truth.

Duckys here said...

Yeah, Glenn, trying to reform our insurance system is like ordering in Starbucks.

Developing an efficient system to diversify risk is like ordering at Starbucks.

Buy a vowel, you ditz.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Building a bureaucracy of federal employees and letting the IRS run the health insurance business is the best way to ruin it.

You liberals need to get your heads out of where the sun doesn't shine and actually take a look at every inefficient bureaucracy running government programs.

And your entitlement mentality is one of the main reasons this country is in debt up to our great-great-great-grandchildren.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - Maybe we should immediately eliminate all current and future pensions for government employees. That would save us a lot of money.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

Taking money away from someone who earned it - typical of the left.

Dave Miller said...

Actually Glenn, unions have fought against that practice for years as conservative state admin have argued that even though workers had money in pension funds, the states could not pay them and remain solvent.

Unions also have fought and lost in the private sector for defined pensions for many years. Employees at companies like Delta Air lost millions in defined pensions when the companies made the decision to void contracts.

I don't recall conservatives saying those were bad decisions.

So... do you think once a person is vested in a pension fund, it is earned and his to keep, or does gov't, or a company, have a right to take that money to balance their budget or raise their profitability?

Dave Miller said...

Again, these are the tough questions that go beyond the typical talking points many prefer so I would really like to hear where you stand on this...

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

What money I have put into a pension fund, and all money put into that pension fund by my employer in relation to a contractual agreement when I took the job, is mine. If they stop paying me, they then breach the contract that they agreed to when they hired me.

But liberals don't care about contracts unless THEY are the ones affected by loss.

Only liberal judges would find in favor of those who breach a contract. But then, liberal judges found abortion as a right in the Constitution, and same-sex fake marriage as a right in many state constitutions. Liberal judges don't care about facts, ethics, truth, honesty, integrity, etc. All they care about is social engineering and advancing the agenda of the LEFT.

Duckys here said...

Glenn, you're ignorance of contract law is astounding.

Some of your Calvinist heroes, Mitt Romney for instance, have made fortunes driving companies into bankruptcy and destroying workers pension funds.

The only thing these workers did wrong was not getting on the government teat.

It really is astounding that you know so little and still insist on giving anyone the tone.

Read and educate yourself ...

... because we all know that you were there up front with your fringe right wing brothers busting on the union over this.

"Twinkie CEO Admits Company Took Employees Pensions and Put It Toward Executive Pay"

It's the kind of trickle down kapitalism you and your Calvinist brethren support. Pumping up the elect.

Duckys here said...

Can I get an Amen from the congregation that once again Glenn has been thoroughly slapped down?

Duckys here said...

Here's another one, Glenn

And I bet you were right there in the front row with the rest of the fringe right complaining about those greedy unions, you hypocrite.

Craig said...

Can I get an Amen from the congregation that once again Glenn has been thoroughly slapped down?

I hadn't looked at this thread till just now. A qualified, Amen Brother Ducky. Glenn sets the bar pretty low.

Xavier Onassis said...

Craig - G.E.C. does a pretty effective job of slapping himself down every time he opens his mouth and lets the stupid fall out.

Pointing out to him why he's wrong and presenting actual facts that back it up sometimes feels like "piling on" a helpless victim who doesn't know any better.

But then he responds by doubling-down on the stupid and I don't feel so bad anymore.

If you really want a chuckle, go check him out in his natural habitat.

http://watchmansbagpipes.blogspot.com/

Joe said...

Ducky: "...Calvinist heroes, Mitt Romney for instance,..."

What a total crock! One thing is certain beyond any shadow of a doubt, Romney is no Calvanist. A Calvanist is a follower of John Calvin, which Romney is most decidedly not. He would deny almost everything Calvin ever stood for.

Liberals just keep on talking about things they know nothing about. But they think they are true because they say them. Since they are smarter than the rest of us, their very words constitute truth.

Craig said...

If you really want a chuckle, go check him out in his natural habitat

Another Christian trashing other Christians as false prophets, idolitors, heretics & apostates. They want us to believe we are a Christian nation when they're fighting amongst themselves over who the Real Christians are. It's been 2000 years people, figure it out. The Holy Scripture, God's Word, your ticket to salvation and it's so ambiguous that everyone else is reading it wrong. Uh-oh, someone's going to hell.

The bagpipes are perfect. Glenn has perfected the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Ducky,

Your ignorance is only outweighed by your rank stupidity.

Romney is not a Calvinist - he’s a Mormon. You know, not Christian and member of a cult.

I have no Calvinist heroes, and consider Calvinism one of the worst things that happened to the Christian faith since Roman Catholicism.

Laws have nothing to do with whether something is right or wrong - only what is legal and illegal.

Your strawman about Twinkies has nothing to do with anything. The CEO acted unethically and immorally.

Your last statement proves your stupidity, and there has been no “slapping down.”

OH, and it wasn’t Wall Street which brought Detroit down - it was Demokratic politicians.


X.O.,
Thanks for sending people to my blog. Perhaps they’ll learn the truth about the Christian faith.

Craig,
You just demonstrated your ignorance of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy. REAL Christians have a non-negotiable set of doctrines which have been with the Church from the beginning. Those who don’t agree to them are not true Christians. Just like you can’t claim to be a Boy Scout if you refuse to adhere to their beliefs. If I called myself a communist, and yet didn’t believe anything about Communism, it would not be a “No true Scotsman” fallacy to say I am not a Communist no matter how loudly I’d claim to be.

Craig said...

You just demonstrated your ignorance of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy

Keep blowing that bagpipe, Glenn. Don't try blowing it up my kilt. You is what you is.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Craig,

So now you make a slur about a musician and his instrument? How very original and juvenile.

Duckys here said...

Glenn and Joe, I am well aware that Romney is a Mormon.

I use "Calvinist" in the vernacular to refer to the belief in the elect.

The belief that corporate robbers and cheats like Romney deserve to amass capital and destroy enterprises because their very wealth is a sign of their being anointed.

Dave Miller said...

Glenn, you've not dealt with the fact that many people who have been promised defined pensions, like yours, got those as a result of hard work by unions.

You've not dealt with the fact that workers who have been promised those pensions, particularly from state and local governments, are losing those, or seeing their value cut by conservative governments.

Do you think it is wrong for conservative, or liberal governments for that matter, to change the terms of these "contracts" of promises that were made to government employees, or workers such as those from Delta Air?

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Ducky, that is about as lame an excuse as I've ever encountered for misusing the term "Calvinist."
Just plain stupid.


And no one sees rich people as any elect - what normal people see is the right to amass wealth if you work hard. What we don't see with conservatives is class warfare. Rich people are evil people. Poor people are victims. So we must steal from the rich and take 3/4 of that in taxes and bureaucracy, and then give the remainder to the poor.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Dave,

None of that was the topic of the post, let alone the conversations.

X.O. is the one who brought up the topic of pensions by suggesting that they should be taken away. To take away something earned is typical of the LEFT. That's what redistribution of the wealth is all about. Class warfare - those evil rich people have too much and must be punished for working hard.

So why must I deal with anything else you want to discuss?

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - " To take away something earned is typical of the LEFT"

You didn't "earn" your pension. It was GIVEN to you by your employer (the U.S. taxpayer) and every dollar you collect comes right out of my pocket.

Did you have a personal savings account? Did you personally buy CDs? Did you personally make smart stock market investments?

Those are all examples of money you "earned".

Your pension is coming out of the paycheck of every single person working today.

Wisconsin had a huge liability in the form of state government pensions. Those were "promises" made to government workers.

In your vocabulary, those were pensions that were "earned" and part of the "employment contract".

But Republican Governor Scott Walker decided that the promise of those pensions were null and void because they were excessive and they state just couldn't afford to keep those promises.

So, following your own conservative principles, why should we not reach the conclusion that your pension is excessive and is a promise too expensive for us to keep?

I am SO LOOKING FORWARD to the convoluted "logic" you will employ to justify you keeping your government pension while denying the pensions of other government workers sucking on the government teat.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

I put 7% of my paycheck for 30 years into that retirement fund.

And I earned the share the gov't put in by working for them for 38 years, and my pay for doing so was hourly wages, plus my employer's share into the account, plus a large part of my health insurance. This was what I contracted for. That was good pay to work for.

Since it was contracted up front that this would be my pay if I worked for them, then I earned everything I worked for by contract.

You just can't stand it that someone actually worked for a living and got benefits for doing that work.

Yes, my entire pay for 38 years was from my three jobs with the government. And all three jobs were covered under the Constitution (you have heard of that, haven't you?) as necessary jobs for the government to control.

That is one of the reasons for tax dollars to be taken by the government - paying people who work for the government doing things necessary for a government and a nation to actually work.

You condemn people who work for the government as if it isn't really work. I was also taxed on every penny I made, and I'm also taxed on my retirement income.

But I will never be eligible for Social Security, so should I whine about those sucking taxpayer dollars on SS?

I have never said anyone's pensions were wrong, government or otherwise. It is YOU who can't stand government pensions. For some reason you think that they are wrong.

Of course some pension programs should be fixed - for new people, not for those on it - because they allow too short of time working to be able to collect it.

I wish I could have worked more years as a controller, but the stupid union in the early 1970s fought for retirement being mandatory at 56. That is something that should be changed.

But don't screw over the people who worked for a particular rate under a contract. For the governor of Wisconsin to say the contracts are null and void should be illegal. A contract is a contract - it is binding unless there are exceptions made in the contract itself.

And I don't see how my conservative principles would agree with that governor. You have no clue - as usual. You just keep mouthing liberal talking points without rational thought behind them.

I'm more concerned right now with the Feds cutting the pay of the military personnel. They already have low rates of pay, and the Feds are cutting it, making them pay health insurance (totally asinine - the military is responsible for their health and welfare), closing commissaries, etc. And with all the crappy social engineering to boot, we'll be lucky if we have a real military for much longer as our troops will be leaving instead of re-enlisting, and enlistments will drop. Oh, but they can draft women to fix that, can't they.

I suppose a retired military man who spent 30 years in service, who spent quite a few years in combat, should now feel bad that he is on a government pension? DO you begrudge him being on the taxpayers' dole?

No wonder you liberals make me want to puke.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. = "And I earned the share the gov't put in..."

No. You didn't. They gave that to you. They handed it to you on a Golden Government Employee Platter that is coming out of every paycheck I earn today!

"Since it was contracted up front that this would be my pay..."

You have a contract? Seriously? Signed by you and the President of the United States at the time you were hired? I'd love to see acopy of your "contract".

You have nothing.

"I put 7% of my paycheck for 30 years into that retirement fund.

And I earned the share the gov't put in by working for them for 38 years, and my pay for doing so was hourly wages, plus my employer's share into the account, plus a large part of my health insurance."

Your entire paycheck came from the taxpayers, so the 7% came from the taxpayers. Every dollar you ever made came out of the pocket of the American Taxpayer.

Every dollar you get now, is coming out of the pocket of the American Taxpayer.

"And all three jobs were covered under the Constitution (you have heard of that, haven't you?) as necessary jobs for the government to control."

You are a strict constructionist. You don't think that modern judges should be able to reinterpret the parts of the 2nd Amendment that talk about "a well regulated militia" or "shall not be infringed".

So please, tell me where the Founding Fathers said that the federal government clearly stated in "plain launguage" that "pressurized aluminum tubes carrying people at 300 mph kinda like birds that don't flap their wings" should be regulated by the Federal Government.

Find that clause for me in your Constitution.

"I have never said anyone's pensions were wrong, government or otherwise."

So you would CONDEMN Gov. Scott Walker's efforts to do away with government pensions in Wisconsin and you would support the effort of labor unions to pass laws making it illegal for corporations to renig on their promises to union workers by denying them pension benefits?

That's good to know G.E.C. Would love to hear you reinforce that position publicly.

"I wish I could have worked more years as a controller..."

I bet you do! So you could have sucked even more money out of the tax payer's pockets!

"I'm more concerned right now with the Feds cutting the pay of the military personnel..."

Then stop supporting Tea Party idiots like Ted Cruz who want to shut the government down completely!

"I suppose a retired military man who spent 30 years in service, who spent quite a few years in combat, should now feel bad that he is on a government pension? DO you begrudge him being on the taxpayers' dole?"

I would pay him with a smile and a thank you.

Hypocrites like you are an entirely different matter.









Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

All you demonstrate is envy.

And yes, I worked for it because the employer said, “If you work for us, we will give you this.” That is what every employer does. And if you work for them, then they will give you what they promised.

Why are you so down on government employees? Just envy? Why is it okay to give freeloaders - those who can work but choose not to because they get more money on welfare - and yet it isn’t okay for someone two work for his pay? So in your bizarre mind no one should work for the government?

Contracts don’t have to be in writing. Ever hear of an oral contract? Like I said, I was given an offer of what they would give me in return for my working for them. That is a contract.

Yes I am a strict constructionist in that I believe the Constitution as written is timeless. Only liberal judges pushing an agenda find it difficult to understand. Funny how no one had a problem understanding what the 2nd Amendment meant until the last few decades when liberals you your sorry self decided to disarm us. First step towards tyranny.

Yes, I condemn taking away from people what they earned - what they were promised if they took the jog.

Um, no Cruz didn’t want to shut it down - the Demokrats refused to keep it running without Obamacare. They are the jackasses ruining everyone’s lives over their pet obamanation.

You keep using that word, “hypocrite,” I don’t think it means what you think it means.

Joe said...

Ducky: "...'Calvinist' in the vernacular..."

There is no such thing as "Calvinist in the vernacular." Not all who call themselves Christian are Calvinist. Some are followers of Arminius. Some are cultists. If you don't know what a Calvinist is, just say so! That's not a mortal error. You just don't know.

You hate that, don't you?

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "All you demonstrate is envy."

Oh, trust me on this. There is absolutely NOTHING about you that I envy.

If I woke up tomorrow and found that I was you, I would just kill myself and welcome the flames of Hell as a better alternative to the twisted,convoluted view of the world that you seem to be able to wrap your head around.

"Why are you so down on government employees? "

I'm not. What I have a problem with is people like YOU, who have lived their entire lives sucking on the government teat complaining about the fact that there is a government teat for you to suck on!

You are not only a hypocrite,but you are too stupid to recognize your own hypocrisy!!!

This is why no one takes you seriously.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

X.O.

You are envious that I had a government job. And you are nothing but a jackass anyway,

What I have a problem with is people like YOU, who have lived their entire lives sucking on the government teat complaining about the fact that there is a government teat for you to suck on!

Talk about a bald-faced lie!!! I have never complained about having a government. My complaint is about who is running it - especially with this worthless current President and his lackey's who are ruining this country.

I'm not an anarchist - I believe in a good government, like the one our founders built but which has been trampled all over by this current administration. Prior to this, the worst for trouncing on the Constitution was FDR - surprise, surprise - another Demokrat socialist.

LBJ held a close second to FDR for his socialist policies. But Obama is the worst socialist, traitor, and enabler of perverts that this country has ever seen.

Now again I challenge to demonstrate where I am guilty of hypocrisy.