Tuesday, April 30, 2013


From Hot Air

Music store owner exercises Second Amendment rights to substantial effect
Who really needs a gun anyway, right? You’re more likely to be shot with your own gun or … let’s just stop it, shall we? In Pennsylvania, the owner of a music shop found himself in a tight spot when an intruder came in, attacked him and then went after his wife. That’s a pretty bad day for anyone… including the robber.

A music store owner shot and killed a man who walked into the store and tried to attack him and his wife on Saturday afternoon in Bethel Park.

Police and medics said they were dispatched to Armen’s House of Music on Library Road at 12:17 p.m. for a reported stabbing/shooting.

Silvia Armen said her husband, Alfred Armen, came to her rescue when an intruder attacked her with a wooden night stick in the music store she and her husband own.

The police report indicates that the intruder, one Andrew Moore, first attacked Mr. Armen, injuring him. But when he went after his wife, Silvia, enough was enough. Armen drew his firearm, shot and killed the intruder. Alfred is in the hospital being treated for head injuries, but it sounds like Mrs. Armen is doing okay, mental trauma aside.

These are the stories that never get reported in the national media because they don’t support the meme being pushed by second amendment opponents. All’s well that ends well, so it remains a local story only, never mentioned on the floors of Congress. But the nearly tragic story of Mr. and Mrs. Armen’s music store boils down to one thing and one thing only:

A good guy with a gun.


Ducky's here said...

Those stories get reported all the time.
If a variety store owner stops a holdup the surveillance video is right there on the local news. Home intruders somewhat less since there's no video.

When dad gets a little depressed or tight and blows away the family and then himself that gets reported as well.

Statistics tell us the latter is more common than the former.

sue hanes said...

Joe - I'm glad this music store owner had a gun and was able to protect himself and his wife.

This is an example of how it pays to have your own gun. There's nothing wrong with that.

Dave Miller said...

And nothing wrong with having it registered either Sue.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


You are wrong because the media rarely covers this stuff. Statistics do NOT show your latter to be more common than the former. You just made that up.

Xavier Onassis said...

You don't need a gun to defend yourself. You just need a set of balls.


Craig said...

Statistics do NOT show your latter to be more common than the former. You just made that up.

No, Glenn E. Chatfield, he didn't make it up.

Investigating the Link Between Gun Possession and Gun Assault

After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession. Among gun assaults where the victim had at least some chance to resist, this adjusted odds ratio increased to 5.45

Intimate Partner Violence and Firearms

Compared to homes without guns, the presence of guns in the home is associated with a 3-fold increased homicide risk within the home. The risk connected to gun ownership increases to 8-fold when the offender is an intimate partner or relative of the victim and is 20 times higher
when previous domestic violence exists.

Would Mr. Armen been prevented from owning a gun if background checks had been expanded to include gun shows and internet purchases? No, but it might make it harder for criminals and the mentally unstable to get one.

No one's coming for Alfred's gun.

Ducky's here said...

Well, it would be tough to convince either Glenn or Joe that asking for background checks at gun show wouldn't be the first step toward inevitable confiscation.

Sensible point of sale regulation is only the first step toward "blue helmets" confiscating all firearms.

Of course people are aware that firearms possession for self protection does stop some home invasions but Joe will persist in the notion that without the news driving that point home like an NRA outlet we are liable to look at the true stats on firearms ownership and make our own ownership decisions.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


The problem is that these statistics could include ANY situation, such as gang member against gang member. Which is what organizations such as that could care less about when making statistics. "There are lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Notice also that the issue of partner violence, it says that it is in cases where violence already exists - and there is no way they can have total numbers of homes with firearms. This is what is so fallacious about such states - thousands of homes with firearms are not included because they just come up with some statistic to cover them all. In the past 45 years or so, since I was a teen, I have known hundreds of people with firearms in their homes - perhaps even a thousand. Not a single one every had their firearm used against family members.

Stats like these are just made up out of whole cloth based on limited information, just so they can decry firearm ownership.

And people like you are the gullible types who cite them as "proof" of your agenda.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

I have no problem with background checks - just a problem with some things they'd deny a gun for.

I don't agree with registration - when Obamanites take over, I don't want to make it easy for them to find guns.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


GrandmaG said...

Obama said today: “Maybe I Should Just Pack Up And Go Home”

Memo to liberals! remember you jerkoffs were howling at the moon when Sara Palin
stepped down as governor of Alaska? Your hero Barack Hussein Obama is a beaten man!
If you have doubts about being president!! you aren't fit to command!
Especially commander in chief of the US armed forces! There can be no doubt in that area! If your not up to the job, then get out!

Ducky's here said...

From Glenn's clip -- "The Cato Institute estimates upwards of 100,000 defensive uses of guns per year."


What constitutes a "defensive use"?

Let me know when you have something worth reading, Glenn.

Joe, off topic. Did Ann Barnhardt go bankrupt? Terrible, terrible,

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


Seriously, you need "defensive use" defined? You are stupider than I thought.

Joe said...

Ducky: "Statistics tell us the latter is more common than the former."

They tell you no such thing.

sh: Agreed

DM: Depends on who registers it. The feds, bad. Local, better.

XO: Let it be your home invaded and your family threatened and let's see how you feel (feel, not think...I realize thinking would be asking too much).

Craig: "it might make it harder for criminals and the mentally unstable to get one."

Actually, it won't. Criminals always have had, have now and always will have ways to get whatever arms they want, with or without government regulations. They don't obey government restrictions.

Xavier Onassis said...

Joe - In 57 years, my home has never been invaded, I don't anticipate my home will ever be invaded, it's not something I dwell and obsess over like you and G.E.C. apparently do.

On the list of risks that I concern myself with and prepare for, a home invasion falls somewhere between being killed by a wayward chunk of space debris reentering the atmosphere and Godzilla rising from the ocean, heading west instead of east and making it all the way to the midwest.

I cannot imagine living life in such a state of constant fear and paranoia like you people do. What a horrible, pathetic existence that would be.


Wow. Good luck with all that. I'm too busy living my life in reality to get sucked into that vortex of nonsense.

Joe said...

XO: "...I don't anticipate my home will ever be invaded."

According to the FBI in the US (www.fbi.gov):

One property crime happens every 3 seconds.

One burglary occurs every 10 seconds.

One violent crime occurs every  20 seconds.

One aggravated assault occurs every 35 seconds.

One robbery occurs every 60 seconds

One forcible rape occurs every 2 minutes.
There are over 2 million burglaries in the U.S. every year.

Not one single one of the victims woke up the morning that happened to them saying, "Today I anticipate my home will be invaded or I will be assaulted, or raped or otherwise violated."

But it happened.

Craig said...

Alarming stats, Joe. Especially for a country that ranks #1, by far, in personal gun ownership. I guess more guns is the answer.

Criminals always have had, have now and always will have ways to get whatever arms they want, with or without government regulations.

Your stat sheet tells me burglars gonna burgle, violent criminals gonna be violent, robbers gonna rob, rapists gonna rape. Not much government, or an armed citizenry, can do. Why bother.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

I am not paranoid about home invasion. Never had that problem either, although during the ATC strike of 1981 when I refused to strike the Union threatened to burn my house and I stated I would be standing by with my Mini-14 and a 30-round magazine - and that was the end of that - no more threats!

However, it is a fact of life that in some neighborhoods break-ins are routine (I used to live in such an area), so it wasn't paranoia which kept a weapon handy, rather it was preparedness.

You think just because you haven't encountered violence that it doesn't happen often enough to be prepared for? You are foolish.

Xavier Onassis said...

Here is what your gun culture gets you:


Ducky's here said...

I have to admire you, Joe.

No matter how often you are presented with a counter argument and a basis for debate you shut it down (along with the estimable Glenn) with, "You're wrong".

Glenn, where did you live?
I live in a section exactly on the border of Boston proper where the primary language is ... Arabic, Creole, Portuguese, Italian, English ... depends on the situation. Home invasions are rare although I did have my car boosted.
My guess is you'd be afraid to walk out the door unstrapped by I do every day. I like my neighbors.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


I lived as a teen for a couple years in federal housing projects in Denver, CO. Lots of Mexican gang activity there. So I know what those neighborhoods are like. I escaped when my mother regained custody, and I got to live with her and her new husband until graduation from high school, at which time I entered the Army.

As an adult, I have lived in one of the lower income areas of Columbus, OH near OSU campus. Lots of crime in that area. After 2 1/2 years I moved to Aurora, IL in an apartment complex for about six months, and that section had frequent crime. While in Columbus and the apartment complex, I kept my handgun ready. I finally bought a house in a nice area, and then only readied my Mini-14 after threats from the union.

After eight years of living in my house the gangs began moving in to the area, bringing the associated crime. And I again kept my handgun ready. Kids walking to school across an open field came across a body of a guy killed in gang violence. We decided it was time to move on, and moved to a safer suburb (by this time my job allowed me to buy a more expensive place). That was in 1988. We have moved twice since, including to a new state, and so far have been in nice neighborhoods, so I don't worry about break-ins.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...


By the way, I don't care about people's cultural background, skin color etc. That isn't what scares me. It is the crime in the area which scares me, and those people can be any skin color,

Ducky's here said...

You bring up an serious choice, Glenn.

Being in an area with high gang activity (and I have never lived in one) do you feel that a hand gun keeps you safe. Or is it just one more weapon in an indiscriminate fire zone?

Not an easy question to answer.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Not an "indiscriminate fire zone." It would have only been used if an intruder came in. And I never fire indiscriminately. Target must be identified, and the round would not miss.

Here's the thing. The important point of self-defense is to not investigate. The first thing, once armed, is to call for police. In the meanwhile, I would ensure the safety of my children. If there is a room to barricade in, that is good also. But once the intruder comes into my safe zone, he will not leave alive.

Ducky's here said...


XO, it seems to be endemic to Appalachia.

Xavier Onassis said...

G.E.C. - "And I never fire indiscriminately. Target must be identified, and the round would not miss. But once the intruder comes into my safe zone, he will not leave alive."

Like all gun nuts, your false bravado sounds all macho on paper. But I wonder how true your aim would be when your hands are trembling and you're soiling yourself in a true threatening scenario.

You ever been in combat Glenn?

Hell, have you ever even been in a fist fight?

Steve said...

"Freedom" is a periodical distributed by the NRA. They have several articles of this nature, whereas people protected their lives and repelled a perpetrator because they were armed, in EVERY publication. 911 is useless when the glass breaks at 3AM. If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. For law abiding citizens, gun control simply means using both hands.

Ducky's here said...

Problem is, Steve, that they do not include the instances where an 8 year old boy blows away his 4 year old sister.

Now I know the kid was only exercising his 2nd Amendment rights but he sure limited his sister's freedom.

Glenn E. Chatfield said...

Never been in combat, but am well-trained. And, yes, I have been in numerous fist fights.

You are such a wimp.

Steve said...

Ducky, I believe you are referring more to the negligence of adults securing weapons as opposed to second amendment rights.

Ducky's here said...

Steve, yes but I'm also being sarcastic.

Steve said...

Ducky, Oh, now I understand.